TEACHER INTERVIEW

Portales High School
July 22, 1992
 
 
Q.   I know you teach Social Studies and how long have you been
     teaching?
 
A.   Thirty-eight years.
 
Q.   A long time.  And how many years have you been here?
 
A.   I've been here twenty-seven years.
 
Q.   Could you tell me about an incident that happened to you or
     someone you know in which your work life was influenced by
     the principal?  That influence might be on curriculum,
     decisions about how you teach, what you teach, how you deal
     with parents, how you discipline students.  Can you think of
     anytime in which you have felt the influence of a principal,
     and tell me about it?
 
A.   True.  By teaching this number of years, you get accustomed
     to certain ways of doing things.  A year ago, this last
     summer, I sat down, I knew that I only had a couple three
     years maybe left to teach and decided that I'd like to try
     something a little bit differently than what I'd been doing
     before.  Teaching the same subject matter, economics and
     government, but approaching it with a more open approach.
     Getting away from the traditional lecture method and testing
     and so forth.  Going to material partly from lectures and
     partly from the standpoint of using video disc movies or
     films, and partly with using computers and partly with a
     type of projector, slide projector that we use to tie in to
     the computer.
 
     With only having a couple of years to teach I thought, why
     bother.  But the more I thought about it, I thought "Why not
     bother?" And I was encouraged by the principal that we had
     at the time to go for it.  We were restricted in budget at
     that particular time, so most of my going for it turned out
     to be going to the district headquarters and convincing the
     administration over there that I had something that they
     needed and something the kids needed, primarily something
     that the kids needed.  I worked with them closely over a
     period of fifteen or twenty years anyway so doors were
     opened up for me that might not be opened up for other
     people.  I got a chance to get in to talk with the
     curriculum director and the person in charge of secondary
     administration.  And the person with whom I had negotiated
     against for a number of years, and we had become close
     friends so I was able to do some things the last couple of
     years that I would not have been able to do otherwise.  I
     have a double classroom now rather than just a single
     classroom with desks placed in rows or small learning groups
     and shuffling people around from small learning groups
     __________? with your lecturer and discussion type
     questions, _____________? off to the computer itself to work
     on games or projects, and then you watch the video disc,
     particularly with sections from Congress.  There is some
     good work out on Congress that lends itself well to that
     kind of discussion.  So not so much by a principal
     necessarily, but by someone who was in the administrative
     capacity, encouraged me a great deal to do what I'm doing
     now.  My wife, who is a former administrator, said, and is
     retired now, "You know you really ought to talk to the kids
     about doing something a little bit different."  And this is
     what we have done.
 
Q.   What might the barriers have been to other teachers?
 
A.   I would suspect the biggest barrier would be not knowing to
     approach those people and getting things from them that they
     need to do that.  With working closely with those people
     over a period of years, the doors were open to me that might
     not be open to someone else.  Now, I'll be able to pass
     these things along to the next person in the line, so the
     doors will open.  It will be a second generation of doors.
 
Q.   Can you tell me about an incident that happened to you or
     someone you know in which your work life was influenced or
     shaped by the department chair?
 
A.   We have in our social studies a very open type of
     relationship between the people and the chair who is there.
     I've been the chair myself on a number of occasions.  The
     chairs in this particular school setting do not function as
     well as they might and because of that lack of non-
     functioning to the extent that they should, what we have
     gone to is a system where the faculty itself has more of a
     hands-on approach to the administration of their particular
     program rather than going through the chairs.  
       
Chairs still exist, but we are more of a local autonomy school now. We have a committee that meets and decides things in conjunction with the principal. Matters that he used to consider only by himself now are subject to discussion between himself and the committee and if you're not a broad- minded individual, one who is not accustomed to sharing those responsibilities, then it would be a very difficult task for a person to do. The principal we had just preceding this one, seemed not to mind that at all. This principal we have now was here a few years ago and I was teasing him the other day about the fact that it might be difficult to put himself in this setting simply because he is sharing the reigns of responsibility where when he was here before, he didn't have to. So we will see how that gets along as the semester wears.
Q.   Can you tell me about an incident in which your work life
     was influenced by your superintendent?
 
A.   I very early on, with the superintendent we have now, when
     he was assistant superintendent, he and I worked very
     closely on the transfer policy for teachers in this school
     district.  The RIFing of teachers, the moving of teachers
     from one place to another.  His immediate predecessor and I
     had written the rules and regulations for a negotiated
     policy; what transfer would mean to the (city name) school
     teachers.  When this gentleman came into the Asst. Supt. job
     that he held before the Supt.'s job, he and I worked closely
     together with that kind of relationship that develops from
     moving people from one place to another.  He at his level
     and I at my level with teachers, and working closely with
     teachers we were able to pretty well keep people employed as
     years went by.  People would just naturally attrition from
     the positions they had by retirement or otherwise.  And
     we've always had just about the right amount of positions
     left after that happened to accommodate the people for whom
     there were jobs, as the new year opened.  So we have worked
     closely together in that respect, following that particular
     kind of a ______? of teacher personality.
 
Q.   In his role as Supt. now, do you feel any particular
     influence in your work life from that person?
 
A.   Not necessarily, no.  It's just a normal relationship with a
     superintendent a teacher would have.  I feel very free to
     talk with him whenever I want to.
 
Q.   What is the normal relationship between the superintendent
     and a teacher?
 
A.   I always believed it was one where if I had a problem, I'd
     be able to pick up the phone and call the person and talk
     with them.  If it was a problem that dealt with him, and
     many superintendents you can't do that with.
 
Q.   Do teachers, do you think, generally feel that they can call
     the superintendent?
 
A.   No, they don't.  They go through their local bargaining unit
     and have the representative from the bargaining unit
     approach the superintendent with problems they have.  I've
     never believed in having someone handle my problems for me
     when I was able to handle them myself, so I always put my
     self in a position where I could talk to somebody like that
     if the time arose.  This worked very well.  He has
     ____________________? benefit from our relationship through
     the years by knowing that I'll be here, and that I'll
     support him in what he does, and I'll tell him when he's
     wrong, if he's wrong and he knows that.  But, he's a good
     man.
 
Q.   Can you tell me about an incident in which your work life
     was influenced or shaped by the school board?
 
A.   I have a position right now in economics and government that
     has been shaped by the Board ultimately, but fundamentally
     from an Asst. Supt. district office now, in that by running
     a new kind a program, which we call a pilot program, I've
     run it for two years, there's extra remuneration for that
     particular kind of position and in that respect, I've gained
     some support from those people.  Monetarily as well as with
     the program itself.  I don't know if this answers your
     question or not.
 
Q.   Well, is the support of the School Board necessary to run a
     pilot?
 
A.   Yes, it is, and they have been kept apprised of the
     situation from day one, and they all would have to approve
     it when the time comes.
 
Q.   Because it involves money?
 
A.   Yes.
 
Q.   Is that the sole reason they need to approve it?
 
A.   I think, if you want to try something a little bit
     different, you need to have people all the way up the ladder
     apprised of what your are doing.  This is a personal belief
     of mine.  You need to apprise them of what you're doing just
     to keep them aware that you're doing something just a little
     bit differently than what you'd normally be doing and that
     there may be needs that you'll have that they need to
     understand why those needs are there.  It's just a matter of
     communications, really is what its for.
 
Q.   Can you tell me about an incident that happened to you or
     someone you know in which your work life was influenced or
     shaped by state or federal programs, regulations or
     mandates?
 
A.   There is a person in my family who was administrator who was
     handling programs for English as a Second Language and that
     program has eventually just began to dry up a little bit.
     The need is still there, but the program itself is not
     nearly as wide spread as it should be.  It sounds funny to
     be in (city name), for example, and then to say that you have
     need for a program for English as a Second Language.  But we
     have a pocket area, I'm sure you're familiar with Portales's
     attendance boundaries.
 
Q.   I might be because I supervise student teachers.  I was at
     Tovan School.
 
A.   All right.  Tovan has some of the people from the area
     between Osborn Road and Thomas Road and from 16th street
     back to the canal.  If we have an area of foreign
     population, it is probably in that area for the most part.
     It is a heavily spoken Spanish speaking type community
     there, and so from time-to-time, as programs are brought in,
     you can expand the programs you have but something else has
     to be cut and at Portales particularly we are finding a
     socio-economic background difference between what we're
     designating now as people from south of the border who are
     low economic end of the scale versus people who are old time
     families here who are of the upper end of the socio-economic
     plan.  So that kind of a confrontation is forth coming.  How
     long we have to wait for it, I don't know.  Or, can we catch
     those people up fast enough so the confrontation will not
     occur?  Hopefully, that is what we are trying to do.
     Whether it will happen or not, I'm not sure.  But programs
     like that are programs that, from time-to-time get cut or
     get added on as the need is, and sometimes the budget goes.
     The fundamental reason for being here and collecting school
     taxes is to educate the vast majority of people, and
     sometimes the money ________________? doesn't go around far
     enough, so something has to be cut.
 
Q.   Are you subject to any of the state mandates to regulations
     in the course work that you teach?
 
A.   The course that I'm teaching in economics did not use to be
     a state required subject.  In other words, when I started
     teaching years ago, it was not a state required subject.
     (city name) district requires it, but not the State of
     (state name).  A few years back, the State of (state name) decided
     that it was probably a good thing for people to know about
     the important free enterprise system, and put it into the
     curriculum as a required subject and that's where it is now.
     So I am affected by it, and government courses have long
     been a required subject.
 
Q.   Does the state then influence the content of the curriculum?
 
A.   They don't limit the content of curriculum but what they
     will do is say, "here is the supportive level that we want
     you to go to", and if you want to go beyond that point in
     time, you can without any trouble at all.  But you may have
     to pay for some of those things yourself, and paying for
     them ourselves in competition with the dollar budget, or
     budget dollars for something else, well sometimes you have a
     tendency to get slighted a little bit now.
 
Q.   Who influences the text book selection?
          
A. Individual teachers pretty well make up their mind as to which text they are going to use. The state has a list that they have, that they give out to people (?). The department discusses the different kinds of text books you are going to use and what the outcomes you are expected to have from the books. But individual teachers, I teach from an entirely different text book than from my fellow teachers do at PPP or RRR or at OOO. I have a different kind of textbook. The textbook I have is more of a college oriented textbook, and the reason that exists is because we have people from this area who don't want the ordinary type, run-of-the-mill economics course, they want a little heavier type situation.
Several of the things like budgets
     _______________? and spending of dollars, spending of
     discretionary dollars, the whole area of supply and demand
     from stem to stern that we may not get into if we talk, say
     in another semester of school.  So we do give a great deal
     of freedom in that respect.  We are expected to reach a
     certain level.  If you want to go beyond that, you may and
     they don't discourage that at all.
 
Q.   Can you tell me about an incident in which your work life
     was influenced or shaped by any legal or judicial judgement?
 
A.   Except in those areas where they are prescribed by law, the
     coursework that you are to teach and the other requirements
     that you have to have by law, are really minimal.
      
Q. You're talking about (state name)? A. (state name), yes. You have the standard things you go by like the tenets and so forth that are required by law. But for the most part, it is pretty much that you do your own thing. You've got certain things that schools in general are required to follow, but I'm not aware there is any unusual amount of those, no.
 
Q.   Or any that effect your particular work life?
 
A.   Nothing other than those that would effect anyone else's
     work life.  They're all about the same.
 
Q.   Like attendance?
 
A.   Like attendance, days of school per year, things of that
     nature.
 
Q.   Can you tell me about an incident in which your work life
     was influenced or shaped by parents?
 
A.   Parents at Portales High School expect a great deal and they
     give a great deal.  They give from a stand point of
     when you need something for your classroom that your
     particular program is lacking, we have an excellent parent
     support group here.  They'll reach out and they'll say to
     people from time-to-time, "What is it that you don't have
     that you need?", and I have a series of video tapes, for
     example, in economics that cost $549 and for a number of
     years I tried to get the district to buy, but they kept
     saying "We have too many areas that come just a little bit
     higher on the priority list."  So, that was one of the
     things that I gave to the parent's group and within a space
     of six weeks or so, they had them for me.  They are very
     good in that respect, but they expect you, on the other
     hand, to reciprocate and to do the kind of a job that you're
     paid to do.  So we scratch each other's back and we get
     along fine.
 
     If you detect a note of pride and prejudice on my part from
     time-to-time, you'll have to forgive me because that is how
     I feel about this place.
 
Q.   No, that's fine.
 
A.   I love this school and the kids that are here and the
     families that are here.  It is a sense of belonging and a
     sense of accomplishment, and a sense of being rewarded for
     your accomplishments from time-to-time that you often don't
     find in public schools.  So I have an extra warm spot in my
     heart for this place.
 
Q.   Well, that's good and I want to hear about it.  Can you tell
     me about an incident in which your work life was influenced
     or shaped by a professional organization with which you
     identify or the teacher's association?
 
A.   I have been, as you can tell from my conversations prior to
     this, I have been a negotiator on numerous occasions for the
     (city name) School District, (city name) school teachers, and
     have long been a member of the organization, both at the
     local level, the state level and the federal level, and the
     greatest pride that I have is that they do ________________?
     to what people want that are teachers, and on the other
     hand, they are savvy enough to realize that you can't
     accomplish everything you want, so they take a middle of the
     ground approach to things.  And do a fair job, and do a good
     job of rewarding people for their work and at the same time,
     holding your feet to the fire in expecting a certain amount
     of work out of them.  So, a trade-off situation.  I've been
     associated with that particular, I've trade at the school
     level, I've served at the district level, I've served at the
     state level and in a number of advisory capacities ________?
     different committees.  I've enjoyed my work with other
     teachers and with other school boards, and with other
     superintendents throughout the state.  From time-to-time,
     the (state name) education association will call me and say,
     "Myron, we have a group of people over here on the other
     side of town that have a problem with their policy periphic.
     Would you meet with them and talk to them about your
     experiences that you've had?"  That has always been a source
     of great enjoyment for me to explain that the program that
     we have and to see it spread throughout the Valley, if not
     throughout the state in some cases.
 
     When I was living in Prescott not too long ago, I stopped as
     I'm often want to do, at one of the school districts and
     talk to them about some of the problems that we're having
     and recognize my own transfer policy that I'd written in
     1975, that they were using as a model for their transfer
     policy.  That's a source of great satisfaction to know that
     you've been able to put some things together that people can
     be using.
 
Q.   Can you tell me about an incident that happened in which
     your work life was influenced by the students?
 
A.   Everyday.  I usually walk into a classroom and ask, "What
     haven't we done that we need to get done?" and I give them
     an agenda of things that they'd like to talk about or hear
     about first, and working closely with the individual classes
     you start off that way and you ask them what they want and
     it isn't long before them in the palm of your hand.  They
     will very quickly and very eagerly try to discuss all the
     problems there are on the agenda, so they don't have to
     solve everything.  But I worked with the student council
     here at the time they were changing their constitution a
     number of years ago, and students are always, students are
     very good.  Students are not given enough credit for what
     they really have.  Of course, they are very careful
     sometimes to hide what they have and as time goes by, you
     can bring it out, lay it on the table and discuss it and
     you've got a number of situations and problems to solve, and
     the first thing you know, you have the solutions for them.
     So it works well.  The only thing you have to do is listen
     to them.
 
Q.   That makes sense.
 
A.   But I would suspect that is true with most people, if you
     listen to them.
 
Q.   Because of the time, would you mind if I cornered you again?
 
A.   Not at all.
 
Q.   Could I set up an appointment with you, probably another
     half hour, so we could finish up.