TEACHER INTERVIEW

Verde Valley Country Day School
April 24, 1992
 
 
Q.   Incident . . . head of the school?  And by work life, an
     example might be how you select curriculum materials, what you
     teach or how you teach, how you group students or deal with
     discipline, how your classes are schedules, decisions about
     pursuing advanced degrees, how communications are handled, any
     of that type of thing.
 
A.   True, I can think of tons probably of each one of those
     specifics you mentioned.  Most recently I assumed the algebra
     classes here in January, slightly one or two weeks into the
     second semester.  The teacher that left left for other
     endeavors, so I assumed his teaching load, part of his
     teaching load, and it was a challenge because he was well
     loved by his students, he had his parameters of performance
     and expectations and things like that, so I had to jump in in
     the middle of the year into a pretty big pair of shoes.  So it
     was a challenge from the students, aside from the ordinary new
     teach in town, push the envelope and test them and stuff like
     that, I think it was even more so given the fact that it was
     a mid-year change following a respected teacher.  So I went to
     XXX with challenges I was having in the classroom, mostly
     discipline-type stuff, rather than substantive issues of the
     curriculum or anything like that, it was mostly classroom
     management that I went to him for help with, and also WWW,
     the assistant head master.  Primarily I mostly work with
     WWW, but gave feedback at times on an informal basis to
     XXX, in other words, we pass each other, he asks, I answer.
     But WWW gave me several powerful suggestions that posed
     the question to me:  Do I think it would work for me?  Could
     I do it?  Her management techniques, and sure, yeah,
     absolutely, and I did try her stuff and had good, positive
     results.  So there's one case where they were both accessible
     to me.  Mostly I had help  in techniques from WWW, and
     both of those people, of course, weren't assuming presto
     change, everyone was aware of the fact that stepping in in the
     middle of the year was going to have challenges, so I was very
     pleased and happy with that.  I needed help, as far as ideas
     went, you know, not actual help in the classroom, but I needed
     ideas and WWW provided some and they worked.
 
Q.   Do you feel their influence when you make lesson plans or how
     you decide on curriculum or content?
 
A.   Day-by-day type stuff that's part of the benefit and blessing
     of being in a private school, and I've been in private -- my
     first year of teaching was back in 73.  That year I was in
     public school in New York City.  Almost all the rest of those
     years, as a matter of fact, all the rest of those years until
     87, I was in private schools back East, two private schools.
     Then when I came to Tucson in 87, I spent a year at the TUSD
     public system and since then I've been here.  So part of the
     benefits of being in a private school is you're not carrying
     that burden that's established by the bureaucracy or whatever
     it is as far as five-step lesson plans, stuff like that.  So
     that's not required and I never thought it was necessary.
     It's not an issue here.  I do my stuff, the kids do their
     stuff, and things like that, as far as day by day.  We have,
     you know, a curriculum that again is mostly hammered out by
     the department head and the teachers in each department.  The
     guy who left,  RRR, was responsible; YYY is now in
     charge of that.  He is now, as of mid-January, when this guy
     left.  So that's really a function of the department in this
     school.  I would guess in the other two private schools that
     I worked at, one I was there for 11 years, the other one I was
     there for about 3 until my wife moved out here and I was a
     trailing spouse at that time, so I wasn't -- but it's really
     departmentally driven and it's a real give-and-take type
     discussion.  It's not a unilateral type thing, you know, I
     feel that my opinion counts and I can voice my opinion and
     support it and it could very well have an impact.
 
Q.   Then it's mostly a function of departments?
 
A.   Yeah, it's the way the hierarchy structure, you know, things
     aren't dictated in (city name) that everyone down the line has to
     meet. I mean, certain things are, of course, but as far as --
 
Q.   What things?
 
A.   What things from (city name)?
 
Q.   What things are dictated down the line, only in public but not
     here?
 
A.   Well, _________ to some extent.  In order for students to earn
     a state-recognized diploma or something, they need so many
     credits in each of the different course areas, unless I'm
     wrong on this, I don't know.  I know that was the case back
     east.  To get a New York state high school diploma, you had to
     fulfill so many hours of English, math and --
 
Q.   So that's dictated by the state?
 
A.   Yeah, and that's just the first thing that came to my mind
     that affects a private school today, because we want our high
     school graduates to have the same credentials as public
     schools.
 
Q.   Incident - - - department head?
 
A.   Oh, sure.  I work with WWW a lot.  RRR  less so because
     he was less present as far as being accessible.  He wasn't
     happy the last couple of years so he was pouting, sort of, but
     WWW is there and I check in with him all the time.  Just as
     recently as two or three periods ago, I had a test scheduled
     for my algebra I class, it turns out this morning as a
     surprise to me and to most people, big batches of students
     have the day off essentially because they're up in (city name) to
     support -- they're either playing state baseball championships
     or they're supporting our baseball team in those playoffs, so
     big chunks of kids went up there, and I was only -- it was
     okayed in last night's faculty meeting, anyhow I hadn't
     planned on that.  I had planned on a test.  And I went in and
     said, how should I deal with this?  I know WWW is coming
     for an observation on Monday so it's not as simple as
     postponing the test to Monday for lots of reasons.  It sort of
     gives a ticket to people that either go or don't go, because
     the test had been scheduled a week ago, and now here the
     basketball team was gone.  So I wasn't sure how to handle it.
     I thought what I would do is schedule it for Monday, have the
     test on Monday, get back to WWW and tell her this is what
     happening, do you still want to come and observe people taking
     a test?  You know, she would respond to that, I'm sure, as far
     as saying okay.  Once I was class, I had less than 50 percent
     of my students here today, so I just decided definitely not to
     have the test and postpone it, not till Monday, but till
     Tuesday, that way WWW will be in on Monday, we'll just do
     business and stuff like that.  And this was also a result of
     discussing this stuff with QQQ, you know, get the stuff done
     that caused the least amount of hassle, so this is the
     conclusion we reached.
 
Q.   He's the person that you would work with to make decisions
     initially?
 
A.   Yeah, I mean, if I'm okay with my decisions, I do it, but if
     I'm facing something like that and wonder, how should I deal
     with this?  I'll bounce it off of him.  But he's not the only
     person I would bounce it off of.  Sit in the faculty room and
     drink of coffee and bounce it off the French teacher or
     whoever, but he's there, and I guess really that's certainly
     fits his job description as far as I'm concerned, as far as my
     needs are, than the French teacher's job descriptions.
 
Q.   You mentioned being observed.  Are there criteria within
     observations which influence the way you teach?
 
A.   No.  I do my stuff and then I get feed back from the
     observation.  So ZZZ and/or XXX come and observe every
     teacher X number of times a year, and the teachers are told,
     is it okay if I come this day?  Mostly because they don't want
     to schedule a visit on test day.  So when they come, and I
     don't think anybody else does anything special, we just do
     business.  And then the next day, usually, there's a
     conference between faculty and the administrator to hear
     feedback, what was your thinking here, and would you consider
     this type of stuff?  It's really, this school especially, is -
     - I'm groping for the word that means not authoritarian, you
     know, not unilateral type rules and follow them.  So even in
     a case like this observation, there's a lot of discussion
     rather than finger pointing or something like that.
 
Q.   Incident -- board of trustees?
 
        
A. I can't think of anything specific. There's a layer between me and them, and that layer is (head) and (asst head), so -- I'm trying to think. Were there things driven by the board that I and others had to respond to? I'm not aware of any. There might be some things and I'm just not aware of it. You know, I might be doing some things which are driven by board decisions and I just don't know it. I don't know.
Q.   Looking over some minutes and there was mention of faculty
     having responsibility for recruitment of students; is that
     something that would come from the board or did that come from
     the faculty or --
 
A.   No, that's probably, and I'm just guessing here, but my guess
     is that that's something that was a result of some committee,
     either faculty committee working with XXX or XXX
     working with board members or XXX/faculty/board members,
     it's something like that, but I don't know what exactly for
     that.  But that probably, I'm almost sure it is, was not a
     pure faculty-driven decision.  At least it would be more
     accurately a community decision of a small committee comprised
     of faculty, board and administration; maybe parents, too.
 
Q.   Is that something you do?  How does one recruit?
 
A.   Oh, I don't know.  I thought you meant is working on a
     committee like that something that I do.  But there are
     guidelines, there is plenty of papers, printouts and booklets
     and stuff.  They had consultants come in just recently, the
     school had a consultant to come in to write a long-range plan,
     part of which was strategies for recruiting students and
     things like that, so they not only brainstorm, and I keep
     saying "they" because I am not actively involved, those
     committees actively brainstorm ideas.  And along with that,
     outside consultants --
 
Q.   Does that influence at all, your work life or what you do as
     part of your work?
 
A.   Not that I'm aware of.
 
Q.   Incident -- state or federal programs, regulations, mandates?
 
A.   Well, not my day-to-day work life, not at all that I can think
     of.  My career work life, I had to know the (state name)
     constitution to be certified, but --
 
Q.   But did you need to be certified to get this job?
 
A.   No, not here, but I bet most of the faculty here are
     certified, but I got certified when I first came to Tucson and
     I wasn't sure of where I was going to wind up working, but I
     wanted to teach, so I was pursuing the private schools at that
     time and also the public schools.  Therefore, I wanted to be
     certified.
 
Q.   But for private you don't need to be?
 
A.   No.
 
Q.   Influence -- legal or judicial judgments?
 
A.   Not that I can think of.
 
Q.   By any professional organization with which you identify?
 
A.   Affecting my work life?
 
Q.   Uh-huh, the decisions you make, how you work or content you
     choose to teach?
 
A.   Oh, in that sense, yes.  I belong to NCTM, I get their journal
     and often they have suggestions or ideas or anecdotes or
     histories, if they sound fun or if I think they sound like
     they would work, be helpful, then I'll incorporate them into
     my course.
 
Q.   TM is teachers of math and N is for national; what is the C?
 
A.   NCTM is the National Council of Teachers of Math, secondary
     math.
 
Q.   You don't belong to any teacher's association?
 
A.   No.
 
Q.   Influence -- in-service training or your own continued
     education?
 
A.   Any influence on my work life?  Well, you know, I'm not sure
     which of our meetings are in-service and which are not in-
     service type things.  We have meetings by the thousands and I
     know next Thursday there's one that's been, you know, named an
     in-service day, and I know there are others.  So I'm not so
     sure which of the things I'm thinking of are in-service or
     just educational type stuff.  We've had meetings as far as
     drugs and sex and rock and roll, and all the rest of that
     stuff.  I'm not -- yes, I've gotten stuff out of there that I
     can bring to the classroom; I'm just not sure if they were in-
     service or not.
 
Q.   Or informational.  How did that --  Can you think of an
     example of a time when  you felt influence by the --
 
A.   I can't think of any specific examples, but, you know, the
     drugs and alcohol work certainly sensitized me more to that in
     the classroom, and I'm not saying that I see it in the
     classroom more clearly now that I went to that class, but at
     least I'm more aware of different things that could indicate
     that as a problem.
 
Q.   Okay.  Incident -- students?
 
A.   Well, sure, I mean, every day if you're going to respond to
     the feedback you get from those students, it's going to change
     your work on a short-term basis while you're responding to
     their needs or feedback, so in that little picture, yeah, it's
     constant influence.
 
Q.   Can you think of a specific example where you felt that
     influence?
 
A.   Well, today, again, I have such a short-term memory, but when
     50 percent of my students showed up today and we had the test
     scheduled and they voiced the feeling that they didn't want a
     test today, I agreed with them although I was probably leaning
     in that direction anyhow.  Let me see.  Well, as far as
     scheduling extra help with students, which is a major part of
     what private schools provide, you know.  That happens
     frequently; you see a student struggling and make the offer,
     or many times the student will come and ask for additional
     help, so there's an influence on my work as far as being
     driven by students, I mean scheduling an extra help session or
     something like that, or focusing on particular questions that
     students have in the classroom that I hadn't anticipated
     needing further clarification, or something like that.  I
     don't know, I'm really groping here, and I'm embarrassed that
     I can't think of any specific things.
 
Q.   Well, you'll probably think of lots of them after I leave.
     Incident -- colleagues?
 
A.   Yeah.  You know, when I first came here, I learned a great
     deal of stuff from colleagues, even from the almost mundane
     type of things to make sure to incorporate in written reports
     to parents, so there's one example, because they knew the
     field, they had been dealing with the parents, so they were
     able to instruct me in key issues I should touch on.  I know
     that's a fact.
 
Q.   What are some of those issues that parents want to hear about?
 
A.   The parents want -- the private school parents are very
     concerned with their kids' success, so one thing they're
     concerned with is knowing where their kid is standing as far
     as his performance goes, so one thing that's really important
     is -- it's almost impossible to send too many notes home, both
     atta boy notes and also not so good notes.  So that's one
     thing you almost cannot err on the side of doing it too much.
     The more feedback to parents, the better.  So that's one issue
     that people always talk about.
 
Q.   The last question in this area is incident -- parents?
 
A.   Well, it's almost the same thing.  I had a phone conversation
     with a parent, more than once, and in the course of the
     conversation we said -- you know, the most recent one I
     committed to sending weekly notes home on this kid, a 10th
     grade student doing algebra and her grades fell from a B to a
     C+, it's very upsetting to the parents because they have high
     levels of expectations for their kid, and they were surprised
     that they didn't have enough warning that this child's grade
     was dropping from B to a C+ over a quarter, from the second
     quarter to the third quarter, and so I committed to send
     weekly reports home.  So there's one thing that I'll be doing
     and this is not the only time that stuff like that comes from
     parents.  

     
You know, private schools are small businesses essentially, and you have to do business. The customers are the parents, but give them what they want, not as far as grades, don't give them the grades they want for their kids, but what the heck, if they want more feedback, they've got it.
Q.   Have you felt the parents influence your content or curriculum
     choice?
 
A.   No, none at all, not me at my level.  I know that next year
     we're going to be offering a calculus BC course, this year all
     we have is the AB level, and I know that's meeting parent's
     needs or wants.
 
Q.   That means it's a little lower level, not an advanced level?
 
A.   No, the calculus AB course is equal to -- it's a year course -
     - equal to the first semester of college-level calculus;
     students can take AP exams after it and get credit for the
     first semester of college calculus; BC level is the same story
     but the second semester of college calculus.  So they both
     offer AP exams, students that pass both get credit for the
     first year of calculus.
 
Q.   And that came from the parents?
 
A.   Yeah, parents wanted that course.
 
Q.   Do they work through the board or do they call XXX or who
     do they --
 
     
A. Well, my guess is through the board but it could be XXX, it could be YYY for all I know, maybe some calculus students' parents said something to WWW. That just by itself wouldn't have a great deal of effect, but if there are enough voices behind there, it would have an effect.
Q.   Creative attempt to improve the classroom . . . thwarted or
     altered by any of these sources of influence. . .?
 
A.   An idea of mine or others that was --
 
Q.   Creative or innovative.
 
A.   No, I can't, I don't know if that's because all of my creative
     ideas are so great or if I don't have any creative ideas or
     what, but I can't think of anything that I wanted to do that
     I wasn't able to.
 
Q.   Describe -- a failed attempt by any of these sources to
     influence you that you resisted?
 
A.   They want to change our  or -- am I understanding this?
 
Q.   Yeah, they want something to happen that you resist.  How do
     you work around it?
 
A.   Oh, oh.  Gee, I can't think of anything like that either.  In
     mulling over this, I was thinking of the computer courses.  I
     also teach computer -- elementary computer programming to
     middle school people, and that started when I came to this
     school in 87, and it really was just an open-ended thing.  You
     know, all my task was, essentially was, kick this around, play
     with it, see where it goes.  So for a year, actually for two
     years, but the first year I was just setting that up with
     teaching basics.  This is the second year I've been doing it
     and halfway through this year it was clearly apparent to me
     that the structure had to change.  We had set it up so that
     middle school kids would -- by middle school, I mean 7th and
     8th grades -- would do a full year of basic computer every
     other day.  And there was just not that much stuff there and
     the kids get bored.  And we're driving these ten-year-old TRS
     AD's, very limited machines, very ancient, and there's a
     certain amount of fun there but it gets old fast.  The way it
     was set up, the fourth grade would be doing this, the fifth,
     sixth and seventh grade, and I would be teaching all of those
     people.  So it was apparent to me last year that we weren't
     going to be able to get through the seventh grade, because
     some of the seventh graders I would have been teaching for
     four years, and certainly not teaching them the same things
     but teaching the same sort of stuff.  So I spoke to ZZZ and
     he had felt this way before, and WWW and XXX, so next
     year we're making a change.  So that also makes me feel I was
     heard, not only me, but along with QQQ  and others.  So we're
     changing it from that four-year structure to just a one-
     quarter-a-year-type structure.  So, anyhow, this is off your
     question a little because I was thinking -- the question was,
     what did they not want me to do that I coped with?
 
Q.   How you worked around a rule, a policy -- has there ever been
     a time when you didn't agree with the policy or rule and found
     a way to work around it?
 
A.   There are certainly plenty of rules and policies that I don't
     agree with, but very often I just ignore them.
 
Q.   Can you tell me one?
          
A. Well, sure. Really, in the faculty handbook, teachers are supposed to wear shoes, not sneakers. So I wear them and nobody says anything and that's that. You know. So there's lots of little rinky-dink stuff like that. More substantive issues though are -- mostly I don't do that, mostly I just give them what they want, and that's okay. There's nothing I fundamentally disagree with, so even if I don't agree, I don't take a strong stand. I can't think of any where I have.
Q.   This last question I have duplicated for you to look at while
     I ask if you could refer to it.  It's next to the last.  If
     you could rank the following activities . . . .
 
A.   Okay, B is 1; C is 2; let me just clarify selection A -- is
     that over the year, the curriculum decisions or the day-by-day
     decisions of content, topics, and skills to be taught?
 
Q.   What you teach each day.
 
A.   Oh, well, heck, then maybe that should be number 1, because
     each day I do what I want to do.
 
Q.   But that content still follows from the --
 
A.   That's what I say, is this addressed to tomorrow's plan or to
     the year's curriculum that we're working on?  Because tomorrow
     I can do whatever I want to do; over the course of the year,
     I'm going to confer with the department head, the
     administration, and refer to the curriculum.
 
Q.   The way that you're talking, that way.
 
A.   Okay.  That's how I first saw it, you know.  So let me go
     back.  B is 1; C is 2; A is 3; D is 4.
 
Q.   Now the last question.  What does it mean to you when people
     talk about bureaucratic constraints on teachers?
 
A.   To me, bureaucratic constraints on teachers means that
     essentially there's a list and the teachers have to check off
     the boxes on the list.  As far as five-step lesson plans, I
     don't even know what it is, as far as qualifications for
     certification, as far as the particular formats and forms that
     things must be done, and we have some of that rinky-dink shit
     here, too.  Like report cards to parents have to be written in
     black ink.  Why?  Because somebody thinks it makes a much
     nicer appearance if the report cards -- report forms --
     because they're printed in black ink, if everybody wrote in
     black ink, it would look really nice, instead of having blue
     ink.  So that's part of the bureaucratic stuff, also, you
     know, use the correct pen.  It's another element on the
     checklist that you have to work your way through to get
     through the bureaucratic constraints.  That's what I think of
     when I think of bureaucratic constraints on teachers is that
     never-ending stream of paper which is full of line items with
     little empty boxes next to them which have to be checked off.
 
Q.   Besides the report card, are there other times when you have
     that?
 
A.   Well, that's something here -- also part of the bureaucracy
     here is -- well, you know, contracts are coming up, and one of
     the elements in the contract is -- I'm the geometry teacher
     and other responsibilities as needed by the head master.  So
     it's really an open-ended contract; whatever he wants, he
     gets, and so that's the way the contract is written and it's
     certain bureaucratic stuff, but, you know, it's tough to say
     no, what that does is make it tough to say no.  We really need
     a timekeeper at Friday's basketball game, and he wouldn't put
     it this way, I don't mean to imply that, but I'm just boiling
     it down to that, you know, I don't think you've made it to a
     basketball all this season and we like it when teachers come
     to basketball games and support the students outside of school
     even if it's Saturday night and you've never kept time, so how
     about it this coming Saturday?  Okay, it's hard to say no.
     That's one thing that happens in private schools. Since this
     is essentially a small business, if the customers aren't here,
     we're not here either.  We have to really go above and beyond
     the requirements of public school teachers, which certainly
     have their own stuff, but they really don't have to -- and
     since I've been on both sides, I feel the experience in
     responding to this -- there's no extra curricular duties in
     public schools that aren't compensated.  Here, you know, it's
     like a bottomless pit that will never be filled up, because no
     matter how much you're doing, there's always one more thing
     you could do to make Green Fields or any private school a
     better place, so there's lots and lots of responsibilities
     which weren't part of my experience at the two public schools
     that I taught at.  It's much more clearly defined; whereas
     here it is much more nebulous and encompassing and surrounding
     sometimes.